SantaMonica Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 With more people wanting to use natural filtration for their tanks, we are going to look at the two main types of units that you can put on your system: Chaeto reactors (or "algae reactors") and algae turf scrubbers (ATS). We won’t be looking at refugiums however, since those have mostly a different purpose. This will be a multi-part post; the next post will start with the basics, so if you’d like anything in particular to be covered, let us know. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorge Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 I know you don't offer algae scrubbers and hope this doesn't turn into advertisement for your products. I probably speak for others when I say I'd like to see controlled testing of nitrate and phosphate reduction in exact systems. Looking forward to a non biased comparison! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SantaMonica Posted September 17, 2017 Author Share Posted September 17, 2017 I think you meant we "do" offer scrubbers But many people ask about reactors and are unsure of the differences, so a few details about them would seem to help all. As for controlled testing, if someone in the West Los Angeles area would like to donate space for it, I'll certainly go there and do it. But for now the posts will be about concepts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorge Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Yes sorry! I don't believe you offer algae reactors. Good luck with your comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonas503 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 I am interested in the difference they each make. I recently put a cheato reactor on both my tanks. To early to see a real difference but the cheato grows like crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SantaMonica Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 Yes growth is step one. But you'll see how other factors are just as important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailermann Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Anxious to see your further posts since I am in the market for solutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SantaMonica Posted September 21, 2017 Author Share Posted September 21, 2017 Thanks, there a lots of options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailermann Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 Any progress? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SantaMonica Posted October 9, 2017 Author Share Posted October 9, 2017 From me? Will be posting Part 1 soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdxmonkeyboy Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 this thread has me very confused.. which honestly, is pretty hard to do. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsonmfg Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 I think Jorge hit the nail on the head with this one... I see this turning into a "our turf scrubbers are the best, buy ours now" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zondebok Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 I think Jorge hit the nail on the head with this one... I see this turning into a "our turf scrubbers are the best, buy ours now"Seems doubtful, based on the current rate of progress here... Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsonmfg Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Or possibly the lack of progress since being questioned...?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorge Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 I was genuinely interested in a comparison between the two. You gotta be ready to give the consumer real statistics if you're gonna say one piece of equipment is better than the other. By all means sell your product but up to this point the title is misleading. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caolewis Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 This comparison will take time, not easy, but would be cool if there are some data to look at. I've tried both (DIY) and scrubber kicks butt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zondebok Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 They already said it wouldn't be that type of comparison, but a write up on the concepts of each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SantaMonica Posted October 22, 2017 Author Share Posted October 22, 2017 Chaeto Reactors compared to Algae Scrubbers, part 1 All macroalgae operate basically the same, chemically. They all use light, photosynthetically, to absorb nutrients from the water (i.e., filtering) and to grow biomass. Just like trees. The differences between types of macroalgae are in the physical structure of the macroalgae growth and the way the structure affects nutrient absorption speed, which means filtering. Here are the main differences as far as aquarists are concerned: Chaeto: Pronounced KAY-toe. Chaeto is the nickname for Chaetomorpha, and it looks like a green dishwasher cleaning pad. It has no "roots" and thus does not attach to solid surfaces. It grows in saltwater only, and is not eaten by many fish. Green Hair Algae: Includes Cladophora "angel hair" and Ulva "Easter basket" types. It has "roots" which attach to solid surfaces. It grows in freshwater and saltwater, and is eaten by almost all herbivores. Slime: A solid algal growth, bright green to brown to black in color, that attaches to solid surfaces but not very securely. Chaeto Reactor: A device that has water running through it, with chaeto growing in it. Also known as an "algae reactor". A chaeto reactor does not allow air to enter; only water, and these reactors usually have a lid attached with screws to keep water in and air out. Algae Scrubber: Also called a Turf Scrubber, or Algal Turf Scrubber (ATS). A device that allows air and water to interact to create a turbulent air/water interface like waves on a beach; it grows green hair algae or slime that attaches to solid surfaces. Reactors and scrubbers are different from refugiums; a refugium (“fuge”) is a space in a sump where macroalgae is placed, and a light is put over it. Refugiums have very slow flow, and very low light penetration, compared to reactors or scrubbers. You could modify a refugium to be a reactor, and with more mods you could make it a scrubber. But then it would no longer be a refugium. All oceans, reefs, lakes and rivers are naturally filtered by photosynthesis. This means that algae does all the filtering of these waters. This is why algae is at the base of the entire aquatic food chain, and why algae biomass dwarfs the biomass of all aquatic animals combined. But for algae to absorb nutrients out of the water, the algae must grow. And to absorb nutrients faster, the algae must grow faster. Next we will look at what makes different types of macroalgae absorb nutrients differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bicyclebill Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Well now I’m interested. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdxmonkeyboy Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 One thing I am certain of, my fuge flows faster than this thread does. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailermann Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 The preamble intrigues me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdxmonkeyboy Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 well, as someone that makes a living from growing plants in water I can say that while a broad overview of different alage types and nutrient uptake pathways is informative, in terms of determining which is a more effective nutrient export pathway it provides little value. As with most things, there is not a linear relationships between variables. An example would be flow. Increased water flow in the root zone of vascular plants is a good thing but you can have too much flow which results in pressure differentials across the root surface (think air over airplane wing) and a media that is overly oxygen saturated which results in ionization parameters that ultimately affect the absorbtion of nutrients through the active transport mechanism. I would love to see a comparison of methods that involved measurements of exported nutrients as it would be simple to do so but that is not what the author is proposing. I'm not saying that an overview isnt helpful but there is certainly no shortage of anecdotal evidence or causation inferred from correlation in this hobby. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimusprime3605 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Yup...What monkeyboy, said^^^Following... Sent from my man cave while drinking Coors light! [emoji481] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertareef Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 5 hours ago, pdxmonkeyboy said: well, as someone that makes a living from growing plants in water I can say that while a broad overview of different alage types and nutrient uptake pathways is informative, in terms of determining which is a more effective nutrient export pathway it provides little value. As with most things, there is not a linear relationships between variables. An example would be flow. Increased water flow in the root zone of vascular plants is a good thing but you can have too much flow which results in pressure differentials across the root surface (think air over airplane wing) and a media that is overly oxygen saturated which results in ionization parameters that ultimately affect the absorbtion of nutrients through the active transport mechanism. I would love to see a comparison of methods that involved measurements of exported nutrients as it would be simple to do so but that is not what the author is proposing. I'm not saying that an overview isnt helpful but there is certainly no shortage of anecdotal evidence or causation inferred from correlation in this hobby. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk Good synopsis of the challenges and limitations of any comparison that does not involve measurement of actual nutrient export. I will be curious to see if someone (not the point of this thread I realize) actually invests the time to set this experiment up in a well controlled manner. The BRS series on the effects of chaeto on nutrient load were at least an interesting start down this road but didn't delve into these differing technologies and were (originally) focused on the impact of different lighting sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdxmonkeyboy Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 yeah. i think bottom line for me anyways is chaeto works, is easy, and cheap. i laughed my head off the first time i saw a "chaeto reactor" Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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