fishmanmike01 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Most of the documentation ive read refers to head loss as the height required to pump water. What about lateral movement? My pump ( an iwaki rlt 100) is located in the crawl space beneith the the house directly under the tank and is still too loud for my liking. I've yet to determine if its due to just the hum in the pip, or if it due to the pipe possibly touching the floorboard reverberating the noise, or if its just the noise level of the pump itself. If its just the noise from the pump itself I can move it to the garage aprox 30' away. How much loss should I expect from this lateral movement? Also would a lateral move reduce the overall hum in the pipe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icepikbiker Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I'm no expert but I don't think you have to worry as much about lateral movement, as you do bends and vertical rise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombertech Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Indeed, head loss is vertical (gravity) pressure excerted back on the pump. The pump has to overcome this pressure to get to neutral (no flow), then increase pressure past this point to get forward flow. Bends, long horizontal pipe runs do not contribute to head loss, but rather friction loss. You can look up the friction loss for any size pipe, which is based on flow rate. The larger the diameter pipe, the lower the friction loss. 30ft is a really long run, you'd be better suited adding in vibration dampening via vinyl tubing transitions to and from the pump OR replacing the pump altogether. If you can feel vibration in the pipe at your tank, that's at least contributing to the issue. With a run that long, I'd be more concerned with heat loss; even if it is insulated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Are you moving the whole filtration system to the garage? If that's the case and you have room to expand and play with stuff great. If it's just noise DC pumps are next to silent, Eheims are just a tad bit louder but also very quiet. I think it'd be easier and possibly cheaper just to replace the pump. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pontus Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The frictional head loss for the 30 ft. run will be about 5-6 ft. of head. That is the pump I use and it can pump to about 40 ft of head. I would like to see a diagram of your plumbing as I can't see how you can move the pump without two lines. I have that pump in a fish room and it is noisy. I have it on a rubber mat and the 1" outlet and inlet are connected by short lengths of flexible plastic hose to stop vibrations in the pvc pipe. I suspect you could reduce some of the noise with similar flexible connections. It is done all the time in HVAC installations to stop furnace vibrations from traveling down the metal ductwork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pontus Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Are you moving the whole filtration system to the garage? If that's the case and you have room to expand and play with stuff great. If it's just noise DC pumps are next to silent, Eheims are just a tad bit louder but also very quiet. I think it'd be easier and possibly cheaper just to replace the pump. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Not and get 3000 gph and 40 ft of head. This is a specialized pressure pump and is now about $500 a pop. So it depends on what he is using that type of pump for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishmanmike01 Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Not and get 3000 gph and 40 ft of head. This is a specialized pressure pump and is now about $500 a pop. So it depends on what he is using that type of pump for. Thank you. I was just going to add that. I'm using this pump to power everything short of my skimmer. Plus I already have it, no need to spend money. I wanted the higher rating for better in tank flow. It's a large tank and I'm avoiding putting a mess of power heads in it. I do also have 2 other iwakis, progressively smaller I could swap as I'm sure they are a tad quieter, I just hate to sacrifice flow. I will try every means is sound dampening before I decide to retire this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 A DC pump that would work in a traditional sump to run a 210 tank can be purchased for a hundred bucks. Factor in the decrease in electricity, and not heating the water up. . . Replacing the pump could be cheaper then moving it just for noise. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 To me it just sounds like this is being made a lot harder then it has to be. Regardless of pump size your not going to be able to turn over a 210g tank with just the return pump. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JManrow Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Wet Web Media is an excellent source for this sort of information. Here is a good discussion on marine system plumbing, including the subject of vertical and horizontal head loss. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pbmardesignfaqs.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishmanmike01 Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Does anyone here use a DC pump? Are they really that quiet? Can they also be plumbed externally? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icepikbiker Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I'm using a Jebao DC12000 even at full speed I can barely hear it and only when my skimmer is off. The water coming into my sump is the loudest part of my system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishmanmike01 Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 I'm using a Jebao DC12000 even at full speed I can barely hear it and only when my skimmer is off. The water coming into my sump is the loudest part of my system. Can it be plumbed externally? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icepikbiker Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 No. A lot of ads say you can but in the manual it says internal only, I've heard of a lot of them cracking because they were plumbed externally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishmanmike01 Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 No. A lot of ads say you can but in the manual it says internal only, I've heard of a lot of them cracking because they were plumbed externally. Cracking? From what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icepikbiker Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I'm guessing heat? Haven't heard of any internally plumbed one's failing tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 By sound I can not hear if my DC pump is on from 1 foot away. The loudest thing on my tank is the light fan. The energy savings alone is significant. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pontus Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Also, using two 45 degree fittings in place of a 90 elbow will help reduce pressure. Well; I'll be damned! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishmanmike01 Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 By sound I can not hear if my DC pump is on from 1 foot away. The loudest thing on my tank is the light fan. What size and brand is yours? I would also consider a jeabo dc 12000 at stated above. What are your cost savings in comparison to? How long have dc pumps been in use? Are they tried n tru in comparison to say an iwaki? The energy savings alone is significant. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I use a Jebao 6000 for my 120g. I had the same pump powering my 265g system previously. The pump uses way less energy then my previous external pumps, which were all above 300w's. Since it used less energy there is also less heat transfer. I have not run a chiller since switching to it. The first DC pump I saw was maybe 7 or 8 years ago. They have been around longer, but they used to be very expensive. The Red Dragon was the first great DC pump I know of, but it was over a thousand dollars. The one I use now I got for $90 if I remember right. So they haven't been around as long as some other brands, but so far IME they hold up pretty well. JME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Also, using two 45 degree fittings in place of a 90 elbow will help reduce pressure. I don't use 90's or 45's for almost anything anymore. Hoses are easier IMO. Better to because you can take the plumbing off to clean it once a year. The amount of biofilm, detritus, etc that builds up over the years is worth having a way to tear it down to clean IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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